Sales: from Sluggish to Sensational

💥𝐃𝐨𝐧𝐧𝐚 𝐒𝐦𝐢𝐭𝐡 𝐁𝐞𝐥𝐥𝐢𝐧𝐠𝐞𝐫 - 𝐒𝐚𝐥𝐞𝐬 𝐌𝐚𝐧𝐚𝐠𝐞𝐫 𝐎𝐧 𝐃𝐞𝐦𝐚𝐧𝐝

"𝑵𝒐𝒘 𝒊𝒔 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝒕𝒊𝒎𝒆 𝒕𝒐 l̲e̲a̲r̲n̲ ̲t̲h̲e̲ ̲l̲a̲n̲g̲u̲a̲g̲e̲ ̲o̲f̲ ̲b̲u̲s̲i̲n̲e̲s̲s̲ ̲s̲a̲l̲e̲s̲,  𝒉𝒐𝒘 𝒕𝒐 “𝑪𝒐𝒏𝒔𝒊𝒔𝒕𝒆𝒏𝒕𝒍𝒚 𝒄𝒐𝒎𝒎𝒖𝒏𝒊𝒄𝒂𝒕𝒆 𝒚𝒐𝒖𝒓 𝒄𝒐𝒎𝒑𝒆𝒕𝒆𝒏𝒄𝒆” ™, 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒃𝒆𝒄𝒐𝒎𝒆 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝒑𝒆𝒓𝒔𝒐𝒏 𝒕𝒉𝒂𝒕 𝒐𝒕𝒉𝒆𝒓𝒔 𝒘𝒂𝒏𝒕 𝒕𝒐 𝒅𝒐 𝒃𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒏𝒆𝒔𝒔 𝒘𝒊𝒕𝒉. "

❓🆀🆄🅸🆉: "𝐃𝐨 𝐲𝐨𝐮 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐞 𝐬𝐨𝐜𝐢𝐚𝐥 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐧 𝐬𝐚𝐥𝐞𝐬?  𝐅𝐢𝐧𝐝 𝐨𝐮𝐭 𝐲𝐨𝐮𝐫 𝐒𝐚𝐥𝐞𝐬 𝐒𝐮𝐩𝐞𝐫𝐩𝐨𝐰𝐞𝐫."  ... https://dsb.leadmomentum.com/salessuperpower

Known as the Sales Manager on Demand, Donna is recognized for her razor-sharp insights, and is a master at communications and creating strategies that help her clients create sustainable revenue and become the leaders in their businesses and careers.

Seen on television, heard on radio, and recognized by numerous national publications, her mission is that her work affects more than just the bottom-line.

Donna's Book - "You Lost Me @ Hello - actionable principles that move you beyond networking"  is at: https://www.amazon.com/You-Lost-Hello-Actionable-Networking/dp/1492263567

👉🏽 "In this time of social distancing, it is even more important that you leverage every precious connection. If you are not selling, you are not making money."

Donna helps businesses and professionals to get more clients, sell more to their existing clients and increase the number of referrals in their business.

👉🏽 "Sales are the lifeblood of every business, however most professionals are trained in features and benefits rather than creating revenue generating relationships that grow the client base."

👉🏽 "My goal is to help my clients learn how to create their own economy regardless of the brand they currently choose to represent. Learning how to lead effective sales conversations is key."

👉🏽  "My training style is designed for the consultative sales person and person who ☹ 𝑓𝑒𝑒𝑙𝑠 𝑢𝑛ℎ𝑒𝑎𝑟𝑑 𝑖𝑛 𝑏𝑢𝑠𝑖𝑛𝑒𝑠𝑠 𝑠𝑖𝑡𝑢𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑠."

You can find Donna Smith Bellinger at:
https://askdsb.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/donnasmithbellinger/
https://www.instagram.com/donna.smithbellinger/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYv-GUV8eOT-Qzbtz6Mzqwg

or book a call with Donna at: https://calendly.com/dsbellinger/on-fire-for-more-sales
.............................................
𝑬𝑽𝑬𝑹 𝑾𝑶𝑵𝑫𝑬𝑹 𝑰𝑭 𝑷𝑶𝑫𝑪𝑨𝑺𝑻 𝑮𝑼𝑬𝑺𝑻𝑰𝑵𝑮 𝑪𝑶𝑼𝑳𝑫 𝑩𝑼𝑰𝑳𝑫 𝒀𝑶𝑼𝑹 𝑩𝑹𝑨𝑵𝑫?

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👉To learn more about becoming a podcast guest for PR, Profit, and Social Proof: 💥 𝐆𝐞𝐭 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐟𝐫𝐞𝐞 𝟓 𝐒𝐭𝐞𝐩 𝐆𝐮𝐢𝐝𝐞 𝐭𝐨 𝐏𝐨𝐝𝐜𝐚𝐬𝐭 𝐆𝐮𝐞𝐬𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠 and get started!  https://bit.ly/5StepGuidetoGuesting

𝑩𝒐𝒐𝒌 𝒂 𝒄𝒂𝒍𝒍 𝒕𝒐 𝒆𝒙𝒑𝒍𝒐𝒓𝒆 𝒑𝒐𝒅𝒄𝒂𝒔𝒕 𝒈𝒖𝒆𝒔𝒕𝒊𝒏𝒈 𝒑𝒐𝒕𝒆𝒏𝒕𝒊𝒂𝒍 𝒇𝒐𝒓 𝒚𝒐𝒖 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒀𝑶𝑼𝑹 𝒃𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒏𝒆𝒔𝒔:  https://discoveryofcourse.as.me/LeveragePodcastGuesting

Transcript

0:01

Hi and welcome to the She's All That video podcast. I'm September Smith. And this week I'm talking to Donna Smith Bellinger also known as Sales Manager On-Demand. Donna Smith Bellinger is the CEO of DS Bellinger, Consulting LLC. And she's the author of You Lost Me at Hello. Donna, welcome so much. Thank you for being here with me. Thank you September - such a joy. And so "you lost me at hello", that's your book that we can all find on Amazon. What is that about? The subtitle is "actionable principles that move you beyond networking". And that's about becoming engaging and memorable. When you're meeting people. Far too often people take networking is speed dating, they run around, you know, business card, bingo. That's how they count their successes. How many cards did you get? But it's not about that. It is about how memorable are you? Are they taking your calls? Are they scheduling meetings? are you even talking to the right people? Okay. So it's a fun and lighthearted book. And as your listeners Listen to me today, they'll get a taste of my personality. And that's exactly what the book is like, my favorite kind of book that speaks in the authentic voice. I love that. So you're not known as a sales manager on demand for napping. You have been in sales for over 40 years. And you've stayed current with all the selling and the sales techniques over all these years. Tell us a bit about this journey in sales. Donna Terrific. And thank you. So I started out in sales actually in high school. I sold magazine subscriptions over the phone. But as an adult, I was a assistant school director and an assistant admissions director in vocational education or post secondary education. I stayed in that for a decade or so. And I shifted over into corporate where I got involved in both conducting and selling, training, and also selling big ticket tech solutions. Then I moved into co founding my own tech firm, and we specialized in data security. And along the way, I got involved in diversity. I got involved in supply chain a lot of committees. And now that I'm in my middle earlies, I enjoy focusing on working with people who only eat what they kill. So business owners are perfect for me, "only eat what they kill". So that entire journey was just building your skills and your foundation on sales. Now, sales is something usually when I started an interview I'm really interested in delving into for is what is the solution that my guest experts solve. And yours is definitely sales. Sometimes those problems are a little bit hard to understand. I think anybody who's in business will understand the challenges of sales like so why is sewing such a challenge for most people? Is it psychological is it just because we lack a sales skill set what's going on with that? There are a lot of contributing factors to people who feel challenged at sales. Most of us who find ourselves in a sales situation, never planned on it didn't train for it, and probably don't even like, say. So that's fine, but if it is a necessary evil, and I will tell you that no matter who writes your check, you are in business for yourself. And you need to own that. If you have a position where someone else's, you know, the the person who's signing the check, then your sales duties show up in that little footnote that says other duties as specified. Because you have to smile when the client comes in, you have to be customer service. And all of these are sales activities. But far too often people view a sales activity as the actual transaction. And sales is not exclusively the transaction. It's the conversation. It's the pre qualification, it's a number of other things. And whether you are trying to sell someone on your particular widget, or if you are trying to sell the members of your team or other peoples in your firm on your value and your brilliance, they're still the same types of conversation. I think there's a psychological difference that most people aren't really consciously aware of. Because convincing somebody of something for the team feels different than buying my product buy my program that feels more personal and therefore a little bit like some people say sleazy Yeah, but me see in that instance they are they take a no personally. Alright and the first rule of sales is you don't take anything personally. And the second thing is no is not a bad thing. We hear more nose than we hear you guesses? If you get a no smile and just ask them, What would have taken to make it a yes? What did I not explain? Just so I can get better at what I do. And when you do that, and they tell you, that gives you an opportunity to course correct? If not with that person then with the next, but you never take it personally. Is that is that the crux of what is? The problem that most of us have with sales is that we're we're taking it personally, or are we missing some super sales skill sets? Okay, first of all, there's a fear. Particularly with men, it's a fear failure. with women, it's a fear of, I don't like me, you know, and I want them to like me, it's different, it's different. It is absolutely different. Men already have their group of people that they like to hang out with, they've identified them. And they've got them categorized as my golf buddies and my basketball buddies and, and you know, my soccer dad or my girl, dad, but buddies and you know, the other things that they're interested in with women, because we're trained from ankle high, to put everyone else in front of ourselves, and to serve them that everything is do we like them? You know, do they like us? If they say, No, they must not like us? What's wrong with me? And we internalize that? Wow, that sounds like a whole other layer of complication. But it's not a layer of complication. It's just when I talk to my women, and I hear them say certain things like, what when I was in that meeting, I didn't feel like say, Stop. No, I don't want to hear about what you didn't feel like why When's the last time you heard a man say, sir, feel in a meeting? Really? So you're being girly? Get off of that. Okay? Anytime male or female, you feel that you are not being heard. You have to revert to facts. Okay, revert to facts, not opinions, not emotions, facts. One of the first things that I challenge my clients and my workshop participants in is I want you to name five facts about your business. Five facts about your business. All right, so I don't want to hear about how it makes you feel, or anything like that. I want something irrefutable. Check the box. Tell me five facts, huh? How does that all align? Because that sounds very basic, logical. It's like, you know, like, basic psychology that we can fix. And as you say, you get better with every call that you make every sales call that you're on? Where does where does the stigma come from? Is that related to that? Or is that a whole other issue? Well, it goes back to years and years and years ago, when people were doing sales. And they were a bit sleazy. And they were, it was almost a game. How many people can I talk into doing this particular thing? It was this numbers crunchy thing, I had a person that was in my office, I can't even call it person a friend because that person needs to make me itch. But this individual would walk into the office, put his feet up on his desk and say, Okay, let's see who we can call that we haven't screwed over yet. Oh, oh my god. That is what some people think of when they think of a salesperson. They're thinking of a person who's going to talk them into something where they're going to have remorse for it later. That is no longer the buying habit of today's purchaser. And so that is not the way that we present an opportunity to be of service, which is the new vernacular that we use. Now in sales. It's not I'm trying to sell you something. It's that I'm trying to alleviate a pain and be of service to you, whether it's with a car, and the service to you or beat, do you need this car to be transportation? Is it connected to your image? Are you worried about safety? Let's see how I can serve you. Or whether it's something like you do, you know, with your programming. And it's like, what is the pain that you have? Or the challenge that you have? And I will be of service to you by minimizing or eliminating that challenge? Yeah, much cleaner fields than that. But also it's a better mindset for somebody who's doing something to come at it from that perspective. Absolutely. So the people who were more numbers driven and they're still a lot of them. You know, if you've ever listened to Grant Cardone, you know, he's hard sales that that that that that he's very, very challenging very in your face. Then you've got groups like Sandler or Rain and everything is you know, this methodology and it's metrics driven and and then you've got people Like me, sales manager on demand, what do I do, I want to find out exactly what's going on within your business where you feel a disconnect, where that's related to sales. And then let's attack that particular challenge or obstacle. together it, what I do is more customized because I work with business owners, and owner operators. And I work with professionals, like I said, who only eat what they kill. So for me to say, I need you for six months to go through this particular thing is not helpful when they're trying to not get fired at the end of the quarter. Okay, it's not helpful if they're going for a specific goal, trying to make the top 10 going for a promotion, trying to get the team to join in and get behind them on a particular project. And in that circumstance, and you and I have talked about the fact that's what I have to get into surely their communication style, and the styles of the people that they're talking to, I have to say, when you brought that up, the first time we were speaking and because in my experience, sales coaches that I'm familiar with only have ever said, you know, this is the sales model that works, emulate it. And it came up in our conversation you were you said that well know that that's an emotional sales approach. Where are you you're more of a linear thinker and communicator. So Linda, is what there's different kinds of approaches. You pull in my mind, tell me a little bit about that. Okay, so you are a linear thinker, because of your your background, you know, your engineering background, and so you love process. Okay, I'm a little bit more visual. And and I'm always like, okay, imagine if, what if, hmm, and that's, that's where I'm at. And then there are others, that their sweet spot is connecting people. You know, they don't necessarily want to do the work. They just want to build a better mousetrap by connecting this person with that person and sitting back and keeping those pieces running well together. You've got people who are my favorite people who support other people, but they don't necessarily verbalize their observations. And those are the ones that will sit in a meeting, I go, Oh, I knew that wasn't gonna work. Well, how did you know that wasn't gonna work? Well, because he didn't do this. She didn't do that. This one was working cross purposes of that person. And you didn't tell anybody Why? Well, you didn't ask me? How do we play with all of these characters, these avatars, I guess we have to figure out who we are. And then figure out how that works within the way we approach sales. Well, I have an assessment that I use, most people do a Strength Finders or a desk and they know if they're an introvert or an extrovert, and, and you know, the very basics, what I do is take a look at where you are in your entrepreneurial mindset, what it is you really like to do. Because we fall into two basic categories, we have natural tendencies and that we have learned behavior. So when it comes to things like accounting and tech and things like that, yes, I have brilliance, and I have studied them, shoot me in the foot. I don't ever want to do that stuff again. Okay, so can I yes, do I want to know. So I know that those are the people that I need to bring it on my team to help me become a better rounded business and business person. But it also means that I need to learn how they process information, so that when I make a request, they know what the hell I'm talking about. Now, does that also work with when you understand that mindset? Does that work when you're having a sales conversation with 100%? Okay, yes, yes, a dear friend of mine, and I had a conversation and he wanted to retire. And he says, but I can't get my team to do what I want him to do. And I said, Tell me what some of the challenges are. And as he went through that, I said, I can tell you exactly what's going on. You're hiring people that you like, you're not hiring people into their roles. And so the things that you like to do, they like to do, that's why you connected. But the stuff that you have no interest in, you don't know how to communicate with those people. His tech guy was a big thorn in his side, because he wasn't able to get this person to understand what his desired outcomes were. Of course, he didn't believe me, and that was okay. So I did the assessment for his team of 25. And I was able to show him what I had already told him nobody in his team like to sell. They were all experts in their specific categories, but he kind of spread sales across uniformly across everybody hoping maybe somebody could contribute something worthwhile in the sales category. And when I got Ready to do some training for them. And I asked them to bring me the cards or the contacts that they needed to work with. People had to go under their calendars. They had to go under their keyboards, they had to go out to their car. And I said, Why are the cards in your car? She said, Well, we're required to make X number of phone calls every week. And if I forget that I make them while I'm driving home. I'm like, and you wonder why you don't close? Okay, so sales mentality and sales process within the team and who you're choosing. Wow, it's fun. Oh, it is so much fun. And when I'm working with my clients, now, I have a mechanical engineer that I'm working with. And then the first year we work together, we were able to raise her visibility in the company such that her salary went up by 30%. So sales just isn't for the entrepreneur or the business person who's looking to move some sales. It's also a leadership function. Okay. It is definitely a leadership function. Any of your people who do speaking know that when they craft their talks, they have to hit every metric in the audience. They have to hit all of them. And they have to shift what they're saying. So they get everybody, if you want to see, yes, we connected. It won't be 100% all the time. But you can keep everybody in the room. Mm hmm. And and that's a skill. Oh, wow. Well, speaking of skills, and some of the skills that you're talking about in the sales realm I've ever heard of, but there are some things that you talk about in your content that I am not familiar with, and one of the things was unconscious bias in purchasing. Now, what is that, and what we as people who hope to be selling, selling better? How do we play with that? unconscious bias is not I know, a lot of people. It's overused now because of diversity issues. But it's not about that. Okay. Okay. It's that, in the back of your mind this, I feel I know to be true. So for instance, there was a point in time, where if you were talking tech, the unconscious biases, the only thing that you wanted to do was shop IBM. Why? Because the perception was IBM was the best, and everything else was just coming along. Back in the day. All right. You have unconscious bias regarding a variety of brands. So sometimes when you are going in and you're making a presentation, or you're engaging in a sales conversation, there's a tendency for the person you're speaking with to have an unconscious bias towards a name, or brand. All right, then there's, of course, the gender unconscious biases, you have men who feel that women are not quite as qualified or feel that they don't connect with them as fully. And that shows up in introductions and referrals. For instance, you have two guys who are CPAs, two women who were a man and a woman who are CPAs, both been in business the same amount of time. Both have offices, and the woman may even have more accolades than the man but if the man only knows her as the soccer mom, then he'll say, Oh, you need an accountant. Well, I got someone so he and I play basketball every single week, or there's a woman who son plays soccer with my kid. And I think she does something in accounting. Right? Because they don't create the relationship. And sales starts with the relationships, which is why I wrote you lost me at hello. You know, Patricia Fripp once said, It is not the other person's responsibility to remember you, it is your obligation to make yourself memorable. And many of us don't take the time to do that. And that's how you shift perceptions. And that's how you deal with unconscious bias. And believe me, 30 years ago, when I was in tech and other areas, my gender this space, yeah, I was that that strange surprise, that walked into a room or as one guy once told me, You must be really good at what you do, because they did not hire you for your looks. So those are examples of some of the biases, you know, it happens. Okay. Could he get sued for that? Now? Of course, back then. No. Did that throw you off your sales game? for a couple of hours. for a couple of hours. We were in a management meeting. I was the only woman I was the youngest. And I was the only person of color and I was an Oklahoma. So it was dislike and it was 30 years ago. So yeah, it kind of threw me off a bit, but I went back and I told my team, I had a team of cowboys that were running. Yeah, I was running an office in Kansas. And when I told my guys what he said, they stayed in late to make sure that we beat that guy's button numbers every single time. Why? Because I knew what was important to them. And I had built a team. And we functioned as a team, if anybody began to falter, we all jumped in. And that's why I say sales conversations are key in leadership that you had mentioned, around the age issue of the unconscious bias that sometimes as that person doing the selling, when you come to the conversation, if you perceive that unconscious bias, like, Oh, I'm a woman, so they don't think that I'm this or that, that you immediately know, okay, they're speaking from, from this kind of a mindset or that kind of a mindset. So you have to then counter that or meet that you made it. But the most important thing is to key in on the solution. And also be very aware of what their ego is. Because frequently, when I run into somebody who has an unconscious bias, there's a certain amount of insecurity and fear there. There just is. And it's like, Okay, fine. I know what to do, I need to alleviate the fear. And I also need to hone in with the facts of what I'm able to do to make this person look brilliant for choosing to work with me. And so in those instances, it will be okay. I used to call my clients, I said, hey, it's Donna, what can I do today to make you look good? And they would laugh? And they'd be like, What are you up to? It's okay. I've called you 18 times this week. So let me just, you know, because I've worked for companies like that 100 phone calls a day, Lord, to get the business. We had 100 clients, we had a call 100 outbound calls every single day, and they were monitored. So if you didn't have a list, if you didn't have a good list, you are going to be calling those same people, you know, and that was the churn and burn type of mentality. Oh, wow. So does that still kind of stand like, one of the questions I wanted to ask you is, of course, things have changed over over the 40 years that you've been building your your expertise in sales, a lot of the people that are in business right now came of age, after the internet was was a thing, it was just part of the infrastructure. Now, that has changed some selling, but are we missing something? Do you see? Ah, they're thinking they can just do this missing from your wealth of experience? What are we missing when we're coming at it just from that intranet perspective? Well, you know, that's fun for me, because I'm also an adjunct. And I also sit on a college board of advisors. And I am always joking about what's not in the books. Alright. And when I am teaching, and when I'm designing curriculum, I always bring in that communication space. You know, one of my talks is, Why doesn't anybody understand me how to communicate across gender generation and geography. Because there comes a point in time, that you have to take the conversation offline, and you have to deal with the human entity. And people who are just totally into the online part, sometimes are not comfortable, IRL in real life. They're just not comfortable with that. And that's one of the things that I work with my students on. Is it? I used to Dang, unless if you give me your report, and you end it with, yeah, I'm taking off a half a point. Because Yeah, it's not punctuation. There a spoken presentation people want it with, yeah, yeah, they, they, they let you know, like, they stick the landing or whatever they do their, their presentation, and then they're like, Okay, I have to get off of the stage. Yeah. And it wasn't gender specific. I got it from the guys that got it from the gals. It was it was not gender specific. But there is a need to be able to speak the language and in the style of the person whose respect you're trying to garner. And, and that is something that's not necessarily taught in books, because you have to be out there and realizing how these things are changing. You know, I had one networking event that I attended, where the guy said, Hey, they sent me to this all woman event, and I don't know what they thought I was supposed to be able to do it. I mean, it wasn't a guy in the room. And I said, now you know what it feels like to be the only in a room where the the oldest the youngest the person of color The Gay Straight, whatever, you know, now you know what it's like to be the only? How did that feel? And how did you navigate that? Did you stand by the wall and wait to be discovered? Or did you take that opportunity to be the most memorable person in the room, I would think if you were the only guy in a room filled with women in your field, you you're, there's an advantage to that. Not everyone sees it like that, you know, I can walk into a room and be the only person of color and I'm having the best time in the world. You know, but I've seen other people be the only whatever it happens to be the only disabled the only whatever. And they sit back and wait for someone to discover them because they're different. So basically, leverage it to what you need it to be the easiest way to work a rhombus from the center. Be the sponsor, be the speaker, you know, be in those be the coordinator, you know, be at the center. Yeah. So speaking of center, there's another yet another phrase that I came across in the material that we shared. And it was so fascinating to me when you said that your goal was to help your clients learn how to create their own economy. Yet, regardless of the brand they currently choose to represent. I didn't know exactly what you were talking about, create your own economy. But that sounds really powerful. And I want to know what you're talking about and possibly learn how to do it. If you are completely confident in your abilities, I'm spritz and I'm looking at this, I'm looking at me on the camera, and I'm like I'm sprinting. Anyway, what it means is that no matter where you're dropped, you will be able to identify what the opportunities are. And you will be able to leverage your communications and sales ability or whatever it happens to be your service provider abilities. And you will be able to essentially make lemonade out of limits, it just doesn't matter. I raised two children as a single parent. And I will tell you that there were times that I had to go out and take a second job for you know, specific purposes. Like when my daughter told me at the last minute that she wanted to go to Paris with her people, her classmates and humpback really, and you need the money when you borrow. And, and so you know, you go and you do something that you know you can do without any effort. Okay, so that is creating your own economy. You can do anything to keep, you can keep your lights on, if you master these basic skills, it doesn't matter where you're at, if you speak the language, if you understand the culture, whatever it is, if you learn how to listen properly, to what the needs are, then you will be able to create a conversation to fill those needs. Trust me, it works. So and if that it means that you are not at the mercy of other people. I learned how not to let anyone have complete control over my economy. Gotcha, gotcha. Okay, if that is something that you're teaching people, I think people should definitely be coming to you, especially in the last year and a half, there have been a lot of people whose economic situations have changed. Okay, got it. Now. One very easy to understand term when it comes to sales is the whole thing of objections. I mean, we all know about objections. I can't Oh, I have to speak to my wife fers Bah, blah. But you said that the whole the very important thing here is not overcoming objections. No. It's avoiding objections. Absolutely. How do we do that? That comes through pre qualification. And pre qualification is a very vital part of the sales process. But if you don't, and I'm not talking about where they pick up a little checklist, and they start going through, okay, so, you know, what is the model? And what is the make and data? No, that's not what I'm talking about. It's when you have a conversation with someone, and they begin to explain to them a challenge explained to you a challenge that they have. And you're like, oh, how long have you had the problem? Okay, what have you done so far? to address that? Now, that's where you start to find out some interesting things. You can ask them things like Okay, so, if you haven't invested any money in this, what have you tried? I take, I've read the books. I've watched the podcasts I do. Okay, but are you going to spend any money on this? Well, I don't know yet. Well, what is it costing you not to fix this? What is it costing you Not to fix this, what is it costing you not? And depending upon what you're offering? That is like, is it costing your health? is it costing you and your relationships? is it costing you on your job and your job performance? How much you're spending on doctor co pays or prescriptions by not taking care of your health, you know, these types of questions. And from that, you will be able to understand if this is the person who's willing to invest in something, or somebody who's just perfectly happy griping about it indefinitely. Okay. And if they are not willing to invest, you know, you're not even going to present the opportunity to work with you. You may tell them what you do, so they can present it to other people. But you are not going to be attached to having them say yes. And if they say, Oh, no, I'm really, you know, I'm willing to throw money at this thing before Oh, really? What have you tried? Now you want to find out where they invested, because you don't want to present something that they've already tried. And were not successful at, even if you have a similar, um, even if you have a similar solution, you don't want to present it in a way that they recognize that, that's when you shift over into stories. That's when you shift over into, you know, like I said, Let me tell you a bedtime story. Once upon a time, I had a client who had a similar type of a situation. And over the course of three months, six months, whatever your cycle is, for delivering what you deliver, we were able to accomplish 123 Is that the kind of success you're looking for in this particular problem? Because the objective to avoiding that type of a thing. And again, you're going to go through the the prerequisites, who helped you to make your decisions, you know, all of those kinds of things. But the objective is to have them lean in and either say, Okay, so what's the next step? How do we work on this? You know, or they say, you know what, this doesn't work for me, but I have a friend who really needs to meet you. So it's either they lean in and ask how can we work together? Or they say, I have someone that I want you to meet? And that way, you know, you've communicated your facts, you've communicated your value, you are not pushy or sleazy. None of those things. Yeah, you're not attached to the outcome. You know, so it's not about alter, they like me, that's not where you're at. And I call that refusal avoidance. And, and one of the things that I did in research projects and for the census and all of that, I was a refusal converter. Oh, that was part of my little side gigs. You know, when you have to get something and you know, like, send somebody to Paris. You do something that you can do when you're sleep? I can't do that stuff in my sleep. Because I listen to them. refusal conversion. Okay, I get it. You don't want to answer the questions. Now. What is the feeling that that has you come to that conclusion? Well, because on song song, song song, so So what did you think it was going to do for you that it added on to that? And what did what did you really get out of it? Now I'm getting all my answers. But I'm not reading that stupid script. Because it's conversational. And you must be in a situation where you totally understand what is most important to the person you are addressing. Yeah, it's not about you putting another notch in your belt. Alright. And in my business, when I talk about my business, I say that the work that I do has to affect more than the bottom line, because it's not the transaction. It's the testimony. One good testimony, one good recommendation, you know, those are the things I've trademarked the term Yes, demonio. And that's what I call the recommendations that I get. That's what sells because I love us, but we're sheep we follow. So if we can read the story of someone else that we connect with, and yes, that's what I'm looking for, then that's bad. We're gonna go right on, you know, yeah, with the herd on that particular thing. So that's refusal aversion. So everything that I'm hearing, it just speaks to me not not just the decades of experience, but also a deep psychological understanding and approach to this whole process like overall but also spontaneously in the moment in during conversation with anyone, you're applying these principles. Can any of us who hope to improve our sales skills, do we have any hope of even approximating that level of accomplishment with a with this psychological approach to sales, it's so easy. It is so easy. It does not take months and months to understand. It's creating the habit. And I will tell you that when you are able to couple that with your desired outcome, it doesn't seem like work, it doesn't seem like it's strategy, you will be able to determine how to get Yes, you know, or you'll be able to determine when to agree to disagree. You know, and, and so it's not about making someone else wrong. In order for you to be right. I'm really, you know, get upset with people who feel that they have to beat you into the ground in order to lift you up. That's not your role. You're not the Creator, you also need to remember that every problem is not yours to fix. It's okay to walk away from a transaction that doesn't feel comfortable to you. Because you want to be able to look at the phone, when that are the email when that person reaches out and smile. You know, and say, yes, this is this is somebody that I know, I'm going to have a really good conversation with. So you can use that it doesn't take months and months and months, you can teach people this. How do you do that? How do you teach these people? What do you have programs? Or do you do it individually or a mix of the two, I do it all. So sales manager on demand. If you want to work with me individually, what I do, just to keep it simple, is you buy a bunch of hours from me, and we use them as you need them. So if you have a project, we work on it, if you need fundamentals, we work on it. In September, I'm also going to be launching some online courses to give people an opportunity to understand, you know, some of these things. I've thought about doing the assessment that way, but I prefer to do the assessment in person. Because I like to be able to see where there's a disconnect. That's just the way I am. Yeah, um, a lot of people, you know, could I record it and give it to you? Yeah, it wouldn't be the same. Yeah, there's that backdoors and I work as sales manager on demand, I do corporate training. And then I also do groups, periodically. I do do groups. So he I believe you've shared all those links with me, I will be dropping them in the notes, both for the video and for the podcast. So people can reach out to you and find out more about how you can they can be working with you. Yeah, find me on LinkedIn. I think credible. This this whole conversation is just being kind of a little bit on inspiring. And overall, give me so much food for thought as it should anybody else who's listening. Are there any last words you would want to leave people with? Visa v? The Psychology of sales and for what you want them to remember something that I adopted a long time ago, I happen to be an Eleanor Roosevelt fan, she had some of the best sound bites. You know, Oprah has a lot of good ones, too. But Eleanor Roosevelt once said, Never allow anyone to tell you no, who does not also have the power to tell you? Yes. And in sales in particular. That is so key. All right. The receptionist says no, we're not interested, honey, you don't sign a check. Now I need to talk to God, you cannot help me. I just need to talk to the person who has the authority to make a no no or yes, yes. When and so it's allow a person to tell you know, who doesn't have the power to say yes. I love that. Donna Smith balancer, thank you so much for being with me today and sharing which is obviously just the smallest amount of your expertise in sales with us. Thank you so much. September, thank you so much. You're such a joy. Talk to you soon. Bye. Bye. Did you know that podcast guesting being the featured guest interviewed on podcasts is one of the hottest 2021 ways to build brand audience and your business to get your unique message and personality out there to those who need to hear it. As a podcaster. Myself and a business consultant. I help turn entrepreneurs into business people who can efficiently and profitably use podcasting as a powerful part of their marketing plan. Want to know more? You can download the five step guide below in the notes or if you really want to get moving on it, book a call. And let's map out how we could make it part of your marketing plan.